if the government can force to you buy health insurance, why can't it force you to eat blockly? >> could congress pass a law to require everybody to eat broccoli? >> everybody has to buy food. sooner or later. therefore you can make people buy broccoli. >> this case is really about broccoli. why is the government trying to make us eat it? i could understand if it was kellogg's crunchy nut cereal. but, folks, if we don't fight this, next they're going to make us eat the rest of our

vegetables, including the lima beans, and take a nap when we're not tired and give our grandma a kiss even though she smells like old tupperware, and i am not going to do it! i am not going to have my health care decisions made by barack obama! or should i say broccoli obama? good morning, everyone. it is 6:00 on the east coast. welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, march 29. with us on set, we have msnbc and "time" magazine senior editor mark halperin. we have howard dean. and willy is meandering. >> day three of the smackdown. >> the odds are already out. political ads. >> they are already out. >> but the smackdown continues. it doesn't look as bad for the white house today. >> not quite as bad. but then again, when you had that solicitor general on day two, start drooling, and then pass out -- >> stop.

it wasn't that bad. i looked closer. >> he argued 18 cases before the supreme court. he just had a bad couple of minutes. >> yeah. it happens to all of us. not on the biggest day of our life. >> right, right. >> you know, it's just -- >> he is no rookie, though. they sent in the veteran, the big gun. >> no. he is very good at what he does. we'll see what happens with it. but a lot of things to talk about. and i just -- i guess we'll talk about health care first. but there is in new poll numbers out. >> yeah. >> that you hear a lot of times that national polls don't matter. this is a national poll that matters a great deal. and it's just not good news for mitt romney. >> yeah. that as well as mitt romney's latest kind of attempt at connecting humor. i think it might miss the mark again. i could be wrong. >> oh, come on. >> that coupled with the beach house and an elevator for the cars.

i'm not joking. it doesn't work. it's a problem. >> well, you know, i think mitt romney's dad, and we'll tell this joke later too, he was a big henne youngman fan. take my factory, please, wisconsin. so mitt romney jokes about -- he said one of his funnier moments in growing up had to do with his dad shutting down a factory. >> hysterical. >> all right. but that's a tease. we'll get to that in a little bit. can i just say the biggest news, now, this is huge news -- >> what, what, what? it's got to be sports or something. >> a lot of times we talk about use will information, and i feel like paul simon that i can gather all the news i need on the weather report. this morning, that's not the point. willie geist, and we haven't talked. >> the breaking banners? >> because any dumb male in america knows that the most important news of today -- >> no.

>> nee of this month, perhaps year, is what, willie? >> "anchorman" sequel. >> yes, you knew! the legend of ron burgundy returns. if you have not seen this movie, you hate america. >> uh-oh. >> that's breaking news? >> or not. >> well, you hate america, mika. >> i do not. >> and announced in style by ron burgundy himself last night. we'll play this clip later. it was a wonderful announcement. stylish. >> you know, very few things excite me. this, seriously -- >> yes. >> you read your twitter feed, and you're a little jaded. another poll comes out. but i shrieked when i got this. it's amazing. >> and i learned about it way too early, of course. today, the debate over president obama's health care law -- >> she hasn't seen it. >> i haven't. >> and she thinks "wedding crashers" is a boring movie. >> i walked out of that. >> as you told bradley cooper many times to his face. >> well, i think a lot of people probably tell him what he wants

to hear. he should hear the truth. that was a bad movie. >> you told him you couldn't wait to see "the a list." >> what was that? was that "the a team"? >> yes. >> today, the debate over president obama's health care law moves behind closed doors as the supreme court now holds the final say over one of the most contentious national issues in decades. yesterday's argument focused largely on whether the rest of the law could survive if the government's requirement that americans buy medical insurance is ruled unconstitutional. conservative justice antonin scalia suggested that without that mandate, there is really nothing left to stand on. >> once you've cut the guts out of it, who knows? who knows which of them were really desired by congress on their open and which ones won't? my approach would be to say, if you take the heart out of the statute, the statute is gone. . >> but the liberal justices took issue with scrapping the whole thing.

>> why shouldn't we say it's a choice between a wrecking operation, which is what you are requesting, or a salvage job? and the more conservative approach would be salvage rather than throwing out everything. >> here is the rest of it. you know, and when i look through the rest of it, i have all kinds of stuff in there. so what do you propose that we do other than spend a year reading all this and have you argue? >> still the justices seemed to agree that at least two provisions would have to be thrown out if the mandate fails. one bans insurance companies from refusing to cover people with pre-existing conditions. and the other limits the rates companies can charge. if the entire plan is struck down, a provision that allows young adults to stay on their health insurance plans until age 26 could be in jeopardy. and certain preventative services including free mammograms for women may also be overturned. the court's decision, of course, won't come until june, just before the conventions, right at the heat of the presidential

elections. >> you know, howard, my twitter avatars is keep calm and carry on. and in part, i put that up to remind myself that every political battle is not the last political battle. we would always have these battles on the house floor, this is where we stand or die. and next week, somebody else would come up and say, this is where we stand. and after a while, you're like, this isn't such a big deal. everything will sort of work itself out in the end. but this week, this is one of -- i think one of the most significant weeks for our federal government in years. >> it's true. >> in decades. >> the problem with this is, this is the problem when you have nine people making a decision when they essentially know nothing about it. we have had community rating and guaranteed issue for 20 years in vermont without an individual mandate. it works fine. our insurance market is not much different than anybody else's. better than some. so here you have -- and i think that one of the problems here is

that the administration got caught up in this. so they argued that the mandate has to be in there for the bill to work. they're getting hoisted on their own words. >> after the presidential campaign, and we have some words that attacked hillary for the individual mandate, isn't that the madness of this? >> it is. >> that somebody like you, somebody like hillary, wasn't brought in to the middle of this process to say, ok, if we don't do it with an individual mandate, what will we do? there's so many ways to do this. >> there's lots of ways to do it. >> without running afoul of the commerce clause. >> well, the academics that wrote it, and the insurance companies who want the mandate. this is ridiculous and has no effect on insurance rates. none. >> we are showing for those of you not watching your tv right now, but listening, barack obama had flyers out that attacked hillary clinton. hillary's health care plan forces everyone to buy insurance, even if you can't afford it, and you pa i a penalty if you don't.

but going back to what you were saying, that's one of the things that always scares me when i hear people talking about overhauling the entire health care system, because we know we have to have health care reform. and curb costs over the next generation. >> and there is some good stuff in this bill, joe. but the problem is, if they throw the whole thing out, none of that will happen. it's very important so that the private sector can control costs, which is not happening either in massachusetts or nationally. >> so why did the administration as you said get, quote, hoisted on their own pe tard? why did they go down this path? >> because the same people who wrote romney's bill and the insurance companies were telling them too if you don't have an individual mandate, then only the sick people will get insurance at the last minute, and everybody else will have higher rates because of it. it turns out that's not true. it's a great academic argument. but as i say, for 20 years, and our community rating is much better in vermont than it is nationally. you can't -- if you -- you

cannot be refused for insurance for any reason in the state of vermont. and you can't be charged more than 20% above the lowest rate that they charge for a policy. in the senate bill, it's 300%, which is basically gutting the idea. so the idea that the individual mandate is absolutely necessary to make this bill work is just he. h -- hooey. >> it's concocted by people on both sides of the aisle. >> i know. >> but that doesn't make it less hooey. >> it seems that that's what everyone ends up at. both sides. it's not like this is some liberal argument. it started with conservatives. >> sure. this is the heritage plan. barack obama's plan. >> newt gingrich supported it in 1993. >> i'm not attacking the right on this. i'm saying that both sides over years of debate, over years of consternation, years of battles with the white house -- between the white house and congress this is what they have ended up with every time. >> here is the thing, mika.

it's not like the debate -- it's true, the debate has been going on for 30 years, more maybe. the problem is each bill is not a debate. each bill at the end of the day is whatever you have to throw in it to get it passed. and this bill passed essentially with a big democratic majority and not much republican support. so this -- this could have been fixed. it wasn't. and it wasn't for a variety of reasons. but if you look at the approach that was taken to build this bill, they brought every single interest group interest the white house and gave them something in return for something else. the individual mandate is what the insurance company has got. and i think it was a terrible mistake. hopefully it will not destroy the losing of the individual mandate will not destroy the whole bill. because the bill has got some very good stuff in it, and a lot of americans are going to be very sorry. >> i agree. >> that was another galling thing, howard, throughout the entire process we heard nancy pelosi say we are going to take these insurance companies down. the white house was being tough against the insurance companies. at the end, this individual

mandate is forcing americans to buy from insurance companies, and the huge health insurance companies that are making all the money got exactly what they wanted at the end with this mandate. >> a ton of customers. >> there are even people like john shadick saying if i knew that we were going to force people to buy health insurance with an individual mandate, i may have supported some of the other democratic plans, the public option. >> right. >> it's -- this individual mandate, and mika is exactly right, it's a republican idea. >> here is the thing about the individual mandate. the truth is, it does have a minimal improvement. i mean, it does in fact create a case where nobody can free ride and cause other people's premiums to go up. but the problem is, the political calculation, this is a libertarian country. both democrats and republicans have a strong i don't want the

government to tell me what to do. ours is about social issues and theirs is about economic issues, i guess. so the price of the political -- of the individual mandate is too high politically, and as i said, it was our experience in vermont -- >> that's a great point. >> you do not need an individual mandate to maintain the insurance market. and that's a fact. >> that's a great point. mark halperin, americans may not understand, none of us completely understand, and scalia yesterday said he didn't understand this 2,000-plus page bill. but they do understand when the federal government is compelling them to buy something that they don't want to buy. stripped down to its barest essentials, they don't want to hear legal arguments. they just know. it doesn't sound right. i don't want the federal government telling me to buy health insurance if i don't want to buy it. now, of course, we could all make the argument that in the end everybody is paying for everybody else's health care insurance anyway, because when an uninsured person walks into the emergency room, everyone

around the table is paying for it. you could even make the argument this is the most efficient way to do it. but americans would probably side with the supreme court -- well, they do, two out of three, that the federal government doesn't have the right to force somebody to engage in commerce. >> in that way, we are unlike every other industrialized democracy in world, which has universal health care. something about americans, we just are not as committed to that. everybody sees we need lower costs, and this bill is supposed to deal with that. but it's also supposed to extend to -- not everybody, it's not quite universal, but almost everybody. people are not wildly enthusiastic about this. >> how many pages is this bill? >> 2,700. >> do you really think if you poll how people feel about a 2,700 page bill -- >> if you codify the current system, it would be that long too. >> they can't understand the 27,000. but they can understand the individual mandate. that portion of it, willie, just sticks in people's craw.

>> yeah. >> where with the clinton health care bill, it was -- no, the clinton health care bill, the problem was that you were telling people that they couldn't use their doctors. people want their doctors. you know, at some point, we're going to have to come up with a bill, and dr. dean is exactly right, where you have democrats and republicans joining arms together, jumping off a political cliff, and telling americans some things they just don't want to know. >> i wonder when that's going to happen, though. because we just had a 14-month battle at the beginning of president obama's administration over this, and the result was contentious. a lot of people didn't think it got to the core of what either side wanted. and now it could possibly be overturned. on the other side of the individual mandate are some very popular things, as you point out. the pre-existing conditions. 26 and under on the parents. so that's all thrown out. >> and the other thing is, there's no cost control in this bill nor was in there in

romney's. but the potential for cost control here is the aco. that is the vertical integration from top to bottom of health care. so one health care entity can now take payments by the patient, because that's the key to controlling costs. that would have worked great. but this is a legislative hodgepodge, it's true, but it would be a terrible sin, i think to throw the whole bill out for the sake of the individual mandate. it's too bad they saw it necessary to put the mandate in because it's really unpopular and really not necessary. >> the popularity that i want to ask you quickly about, we are going to get to the polls which are fascinating, but the cost of the individual -- forget whether or not it sticks in people's craw. >> it's pretty minimal. >> that's a point to be made if you're going to assess people's opinions of it. what is the cost across the board? >> the cost of not doing it or of doing it? >> of doing it. >> i don't think there is a lot of cost except for the individuals that have to buy the insurance. >> and how much do they have to pay? >> that depends on their income. if their income is less than -- i think it's 400%, they get help

from the government to pay for it. >> just pointing it out. >> the individual mandate is not critical for a universal health care bill. i don't think this reaction is against having a universal health care bill. it's being forced to buy it. they could have just given everybody a card when they are born and now you have health insurance. >> many americans think it's an important matter of social justice, it's not a strong enough feeling that people are willing to fight for a way to get it. >> well, it's certainly not -- it's certainly not at a time when we're in the middle of a great recession. and i think even some people in the administration would admit privately to you, high up in the administration, that maybe they shouldn't have spent as much time on this health care bill as they did at the time that they did it. >> or they would say there's no good time. now to the presidential race. and new national polling out this morning with some positive news for president obama. according to a new cnn opinion research poll, the president now tops romney by 11 points and

santorum by 13 points in head-to-head matchups. the two republicans also trail the president when it comes to favorability ratings. obama has a 14-point net positive favorability rating while romney is upside down by 12 points, and santorum by seven. romney's unfavorable number is still higher than santorum's, whose unfavorable marks having gone up every time cnn measured the number since last spring. >> ok. i want you to keep this full screen up and look at the middle number. mitt romney, who has long argued that he is the most electable, and who party leaders have long argued will do the best in the general election because he's not a radical reactionary, now has favorability ratings that are net minus 12. howard dean, boy, you just don't usually find a presidential

candidate in that position. you know, whenever people would ask me, well, why can't sarah palin be president a year and a half ago, two years ago? i would say just look at the net favorability ratings. that they usually don't turn around. same with newt. the net unfavorability ratings were so bad, that rarely turns around. >> there's another problem with these numbers. not these particular numbers. the net unfavorability numbers are very bad. but this was a poll we showed on this show about six months ago, i think it was gallup, that showed that 70% of americans believe that mitt romney only cared about rich people. whether that's true or not is not the problem. the problem is that if that's what you believe, as you know, one of the most important polls, on any poll, and almost in every poll for a candidate is, does this candidate care about people like me? well, the american people think the answer to that is no by about 70%. so this is going to be hard to come back from for mitt romney. this is why citizens united is so outrageous.

shelley adeleson did this. without a guy able to write $20 million worth of checks for newt gingrich, the guy is a winner after florida and he gets a good shot at the presidency. his shot has been destroyed by the fact that one guy can write $20 million for his opponent. >> super pac ads. and, mark, you look at the negative 12, and then you look at -- and i know a lot of people think we pick on mitt romney. well, we pick on everybody if they say stupid things or if they do stupid things. it is stupid to build a mansion in la jolla with a car elevator. in an election year. and have a single lobbyist for your mansion in la jolla, one of the most exclusive areas in america. that was yesterday. it's stupid to go on the campaign trail and say one of the funniest moments in your life was when your father shut down a factory in michigan. that's not -- i mean, it's -- >> and it's really not as funny anymore. they are not just gaffs. >> and by the way, i know there

are a lot of people out there that support romney that will say something nasty, why are you always picking on romney? guess what, romney's own people when he says stuff like this go crazy. cbs should have a news show this year, s-h-blank blank mitt says. you know, "stuff my dad says." that's a takeoff. that's a william shatner thing. but the stuff that mitt says day in and day out is maddening for republicans. and nobody's more frustrated than his own campaign staff that says, what's he doing? >> get out the wall calendar, april through november. and every day write in the calendar on each day, did romney say something today that democrats could make the story of the day? and the media will jump on? and it's just going to be determined if he can win, how many days did you write romney said something stupid again. but on the other hand, his approval -- favorable,

unfavorable is bad. michael dukakis was up 17 points over george bush. these are snap shots of today. if he continues to run like this, he can't win. if he does better, he can. >> but favorability is usually hard to turn around. >> hard, but he doesn't have to turn it around completely to win. if he makes the election about the economy, and the president's record, he can win with the underwater -- >> he has a lot of work to do. >> he does. >> this is unprecedented in modern american history for a republican to be down this much at this stage. really quickly, and i know we have to go, but willie, another reason this is devastating for romney, if he doesn't get the delegates he needs in tampa, we're going to have 60 days between the last republican primary and the beginning of the tampa convention, where it's not going to be mainstream media picking a mitt romney. it's going to be the republican

party wringing their hands and looking at one gaff after another after another. and if this guy is minus 15 in his net favorability, unfavorability ratings, anything could happen at that election. >> newt gingrich -- >> 60 days to make trouble. >> newt made that very point two days ago. he said get us to june, and we'll have 60 days of debate online, on tv, on radio and we're going on go after mitt romney. >> just what the chairman of the republican party wants to hear. >> exactly. but at some point, these aren't gaffs anymore. this is what's inside you when you continue to say things. >> willie, wait. i just -- i really don't get the house. and i don't mean to get so personal. but we're in a recession, and people are hurting, and you're running for president and you are building a mansion that is tens of thousands of square feet and has a car elevator? >> that's the problem. >> you're disconnected. you don't get it. >> and, again -- >> that's a problem. >> that is. >> mika, i know you'll agree with me, everybody has a right if they work hard and make money

to build whatever they want. >> sure. whatever you want. >> but to do it in an election year shows that he's -- >> joe, they have a right to have a cayman islands investment and a swiss bank account. but how could you have that? he knew he was going to run for president. it's unbelievable. >> it shows a real blind spot. >> 99%, 1% is the issue of our year, of our time you could argue. >> boy, there are so many of these gaffs now, though. >> i like him too. >> we like him. but there are so many gaffs at this point, you can't even fit them into a 30-second ad. >> and we're not really picking on romney. it's a compliment that we are spending so much time on him because obviously we all believe that he's going to be the nominee. >> and who can talk to a candidate? who there can talk to him and say, you know what? that doesn't work. you can't do that right now. or i don't want to work on your campaign. because it's not going to win. >> while we're talking about cars, again, there are so many -- i can't imagine saying that, oh, and my wife, she has a

couple of cadillacs. you know, i mean, i -- i guarantee you, if i run again, i'm going to buy a pickup truck and let people take pictures of me in that. i mean, it's just -- it's -- perception is reality. holy cow. who do we have next? coming up, republican senator tom coburn of oklahoma. also, jillian tett. and later, from the legendary punk band the ramons, tommy ramone. >> they were in the same fra te ternity at princeton. up next, the political playbook. mitt romney lands a big endorsement from one of the senate's rising stars, marco rubio. also another endorsement from the same person. a new old endorsement.

but first, here is bill karins to talk about the forecast. >> full endorsement, once a year. good morning, everyone. we have cool air rushing back into new england. we'll see some snow showers in the higher elevations out there, but it's not going to be too bad of a day. probably some of the worst weather out there, northern kansas right now. thunderstorms rolling from st. joseph to st. louis. late today, could see a few tornadoes late this afternoon and early evening hours. watch out, omaha to kansas city area, down into oklahoma. as far as the forecast goes in the northeast today, not bad. typical march like day. maybe a few sprinkles this morning. this afternoon should be in the 50s and partly cloudy. middle of the country, thunderstorms. west coast, what a miserable morning for you. northern california and oregon, high winds and a lot of heavy rain around seattle. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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ghetd get onstage now. >> honestly, i'm not prepared. really not at all. let's go! ♪ >> oh, my goodness. >> christina applegate. >> i like her. >> every bit as good, every bit as funny, as will ferrell. >> hated by the academy. was not even nominated. >> all right. i need to see this. >> we are building up to a dramatic announcement at 6:54 this morning. >> do we have a countdown clock? >> baxter at the end. >> wow, you remember that? >> like a little buddha, all covered in hair. >> baxter gets run out of the bear cage. holy cow.

>> it's like the way you treat "charlotte's web." >> you know, our parents had "citizen kane," right? we have this. >> good call. >> there is big breaking news, like a supreme court decision on the big battle. a countdown. >> well, we don't know when it's going to be. >> no, it's going to be during "news you can't use." a look at the morning papers. the "chicago tribune," our hero, a man who was framed, sent upriver for crimes he did not commit. or maybe he did. rod blagojevich's former chief of staff arrested for trying to help his former boss sell barack obama's senate seat, sentenced to 10 days in prison. john harris immediately agreed to cooperate and eventually

pleaded guilty to the charges and did not put his wife on a reality show. seriously, how do we get justice for blago? do we do a website, justi justiceforblago.com. it doesn't quite take off like we thought it would. pope benedict greeting a crowd of 300,000 people during his last day in cuba. the pope who met privately with fidel castro said that cuba and the world needed to change. from the houston chronicle, friday's megamillions jackpot now half a billion dollars. what are the odds of hitting the jackpot? about 1 in 176 million. compare that to the odds of getting hit by an asteroid. 1 in 700,000. the odds of becoming president, 1 in 10 million. all right. >> full disclosure, bought five tickets yesterday. >> you did not? >> yeah. i was walking down broadway. there was one right there. i said what the hell. >> what's the jackpot now? >> it's over half a billion.

>> half a billion. >> with all the publicity, it will get up to like $750. >> he has two plans if he wins. one, he'll fund 1,000 kids to go to college, and build a car elevator. >> i love that. >> exactly. >> two dreams. but first i need a car. that's the first thing. >> well, actually, first you need a car. and secondly, you need a house. >> right. >> because you're not going to like to do that in your apartment. joining us now with the political playbook, jim, good morning. >> good morning. >> big endorsement last night. senator marco rubio of florida announcing he will be backing on mitt romney. here's what he said last night. >> i am going to endorse mitt romney and the reason why is not only because he's going to be the republican nominee but he offers such a stark contrast to the president's record. look at the president's record. this is someone who has run the country not very well over the last three years but has no experience beyond that doing that. no experience with the private sector or the free enterprise system.

i have zero doubt in my mind of two things. number one, that mitt romney will govern as a conservative, and number two, he will be head and shoulders better than the guy who's in the white house right now. >> jim, we know rubio's name is in the hopper as a potential vice presidential pick. but what does this endorsement for mitt romney mean for the race? >> i don't think it's that big of a deal. i don't think many endorsements are a big deal. it's just more evidence that the establishment is rallying around mitt romney, even if they are not doing it enthusiastically. i think, you know, it's weird how they played it and that they didn't do it with great fanfare during the day. they did get a great spot on fox news. as far as winning over conservatives and getting them directly through the media, not a bad play on their part. but mitt romney's problems are not getting the establishment behind him. it's getting any conservative to be fired up about his candidacy. and i think the stuff you guys have been chewing on onset all day is the stuff that matters most, the idea that he continues to have these gaffs and leave

people kind of puzzled at how a guy who has been running as a professional presidential candidate like this for seven years continues to stumble every week. >> is it likely that mark rubio will be the vice presidential choice or is it too early to say? >> i don't think it is, which probably runs against conventional read on this. i don't think rubio wants it. i think he really wants to run in 2016. wants more practice before he truly hits the national stage. i don't know that romney really wants him. because he has not been fully vetted in florida. and he's not -- romney is not someone who takes a lot of risks. >> mark, you've said before your money is on portman. do you still believe that? >> my money would be on portman and not on rubio for all the reasons jim said. and especially romney's argument is that the guy we elected last time wasn't up to the job. i don't think he can afford to pick somebody who's, you know, not obviously ready to be president from day one. to say the least. >> he's got a bright future. >> 2016. >> well, we are in the present. >> well, he does have a bright

future. but from everybody i've talked to, he is smart enough to know he just got to the senate and he doesn't want to make the same mistake that president obama made, which was getting in a rush and becoming president of the united states before you fully understand how washington, d.c., worked. >> if you're going to make bets, bet on him being a keynote speaker at the convention. >> christina martinez. tell me about her. >> i don't know a lot about her, but she has great numbers in new mexico. only been there for two years. romney, i'm a little more sanguine about the possibility of rubio. romney is 6-1 behind in latinos, and you can't do that in be a republican president. >> well, governor martinez would take care of that. >> i bet you romney's folks are looking at her right now. >> what can you tell us about her, jim? >> governor dean is correct. they have been looking at her very closely over the last couple of weeks in particular. that number he has with latino support is awful.

he cannot win the presidency with 20, 25% of the hispanic vote. has to change the dynamics. suzanna martinez, very popular in her state. is conservative. not that well known. not as vetted as some of the other folks like portman that we have been talking about. but if he needs to go big and change the dynamics and move the republican party from being an all white mostly male party, she delivers on two scores, which is why i think she is on the list. i do agree with halpern at the end of the day i think portman is the odds on favorite to get it. and i would say governor mcdonald and governor christie are the two that want it the most who aren't going to get it. >> jim, thanks. >> take care. sports is next. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] this one goes out to all the allergy muddlers. you know who you are.

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and hurtle us all into space, which would render retirement planning unnecessary. but say the sun rises on december 22nd and you still need to retire, td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life. we'll even throw in up to $600 when you open a new account or roll over an old 401(k). so who's in control now, mayans? the passat is one of nine volkswagen models named a 2012 iihs top safety pick. not that we'd ever brag about it. turn right. come on, nine. turn left. hit the brakes. huh? how'd that get there? [ male announcer ] we can't hide how proud we are to have nine 2012 iihs top safety picks. so we're celebrating with our "safety in numbers" event. that's the power of german engineering. right now lease the 2012 passat for $219 a month.

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welcome back to "morning joe." time for some sports. opening day, i guess, technically was yesterday in tokyo. mariners-as. we all know the real season starts next week. as we speak, as and ms playing game two of their opening series in tokyo. bottom of the seventh. mariners up 1-0 on a justin smoak solo home run. yesterday, packed house at the tokyo dome.

justin acly, first home run of the 2012 major league season. the bomb to right center. all the focus, though, on the native of japan, ichiro. he did not disappoint. in the fourth, a scorching line drive to short. infield hit. he finished with an rbi and four hits. tied a club record for most hits in an opening day game. this one went into extra innings. the mariners scoring two runs in the 11th. seattle wins the first game of the season by a score of 3-1. >> mark halperin wishes he was there. >> i love japan. >> why do you love japan so much? >> it's the best place on the planet. >> why do you think that? >> big tokyo guy. >> have you been to kyoto? >> many times. wonderful people, great food, great architecture. cherry blossoms. >> you don't like the european cities? tokyo over paris? >> for me, yes. >> oh, my lord. what is that about? up next, mika's must read opinion pages. keep it on "morning joe."

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to learn more, visit us today. case 11398, the department of health and human services, versus florida. >> for more than 80% of americans, the insurance system does provide effective access. excuse me. because the -- the -- the -- excuse me. >> that's an rnc ad. >> that's not fair. >> it's not fair. >> but it's funny. >> that's not fair. >> no.

>> oh, my god. for all of us that have melted down, at times in front of audiences before, oh, my god. >> it's not fair. it's mean. it's a little funny. and it's not going to move anybody. it's not going to move anything on the dial. it's just a silly ad. >> on the same issue -- >> let me ask you, i'd be remiss, you obviously had a moment in iowa where -- >> although mine was partly concocted. among others. >> where you were screaming. but what people don't understand that were in your position, i'm just going to set this up so you don't have to say this, when it's very loud and you're holding a microphone and it's up to your mouth, what you're hearing in this loud audience is not a direct feed from the microphone to the tv, which makes you sound like -- it made it sound inappropriate. but talk about that moment that was seen as a meltdown. and how do you deal with that as a public figure like this solicitor general? >> i don't. i just laugh. >> you just laughed it off at

the time? >> i laughed it off at the time, and i laugh it off now. this is one of the things that happens in politics. the print reporters didn't write about it. why? it was nothing unusual. it was the cable stations that didn't. the reason i don't have a big problem with it is it's not what cost me the election. we came in third in iowa, and you are supposed to come in first. ask hillary. it doesn't work so well. the scream speech was essentially concocted by cable television. >> what's your advice? take it from that to ve relli. >> just ignore the whole thing. the press has nothing to do with whether or not he keeps his job. just laugh at it. >> also in his defense, there's not a justice up there that's going to go one way or the other because he fumbled around for a couple of minutes >> that's right. >> ok. i'm going to read from kathleen parker's piece.

obama's health care is not a civil rights issue. i was going to read this but i'm not going to have time. as a selfish human being, i want everyone to buy insurance. i also want nearly everyone to drop 20 pounds, exercise 45 minutes a day, abstain from drugs and cigarettes, drink no more than five ounces of red wine daily, get eight hours of sleep, eat a diet of mostly grains and vegetables and avoid all sugars. this would do more to improve health and reduce the need for medical care than anything else on the planet. shouldn't we start there? doesn't it violate my civil rights to have to subsi dies the consequences of other people's poor choices and lack of discipline? but, no, governments can't dictate what people consume or how much they exercise. wanna bet? stick around. >> mika, you see that as a positive. most of us would see that as a negative. she read that without irony. >> she can't wait. it was a how-to list. >> it's a good point.

even though it plays into something we talk about here all the time. >> in some places, in restaurants it does regulate what you can eat, new york in particular. they are not going into your home yet, but there are restaurants where you can't eat certain things that you'd like to eat. >> give bloomberg a fourth term. there will be refrigerator cops. >> and we love the mayor. >> we do. >> show people what you're reading first. do this. >> this is the beach house. that's the old one. >> this is the old beach house. he is pulling it down. >> and read this quickly. >> 11,000 square feet. 3,600 square foot underground level. lap pool. they bought it for $12 million in 2008. let me think about when that was. there's a lobbyist to guide it through california's complicated bureaucracy. they need it to have the space to host the candidate's five children and grandchildren. but they have a $10 million new hampshire lakehouse, in addition to their primary residence. and they just recently sold a $5.3 million utah ski chalet.

are we in a recession? >> well, they are trying to get -- they are trying to get us out of the recession. spending. hey, coming up next, the countdown clock is not up there but ron burgundy makes a surprise appearance with conan with an announcement, friends, that will change your life. "news you can't use" is up next. >> ron, are you ok? ron? ron? where are you? >> i'm in a glass case of emotion! my job is to find the next big sound.

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you know what they say >> it works 100% of the time. >> 60% of the time. >> we have arrived. 6:55 a.m. eastern time. santiago's favorite throwback newsman is back. ron burgundy making a huge announcement last night on conan. >> one small criticism. and it's probably something only

a professional like me would notice. but, conan, you look awful. you look like someone put a bright red fright wig on a skeleton. and chucked it out of a helicopter. >> really? >> yes. yes. i'm being kind right now. ok? >> ok. >> go into your doctor's office and point at your face and say, doc, it's a page 1 rewrite. >> oh, my god. >> yeah. >> ron. ron. that's just terrible. that's very hurtful. >> that comes from the heart. actually, i have an announcement. i want to announce this to everyone here in the americas. to our friends in spain, turkey, and the uk, including england --

[ laughter ] >> that as of 0900 mountain time, paramount pictures and myself, ronald joseph aaron burgundy, have come to terms on a sequel to "anchorman." >> it is official. >> there will be -- there will be a sequel to "anchorman." >> there will be a sequel. gentlemen? ♪ >> there he goes. with that, ron burgundy exits the stage. the "hollywood reporter" says just about the whole cast will be back. "anchor man 2." >> as long as christina applegate is there -- >> she's incredible. coming out next year, we're told. >> i haven't seen the first one. >> you have to see it. coming up, senator tom

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we won't rest until we have a cure. join us. go to alz.org. on december 21st, polar shifts will reverse the earth's gravitational pull and hurtle us all into space, which would render retirement planning unnecessary. but say the sun rises on december 22nd and you still need to retire, td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life. we'll even throw in up to $600 when you open a new account or roll over an old 401(k). so who's in control now, mayans? the passat is one of nine volkswagen models named a 2012 iihs top safety pick. not that we'd ever brag about it. turn right. come on, nine. turn left. hit the brakes. huh? how'd that get there? [ male announcer ] we can't hide how proud we are to have nine top safety picks like the passat and jetta.

so we're celebrating with our "safety in numbers" event. that's the power of german engineering. right now lease the 2012 jetta for $159 a month. what the lobbyists want, what wall street wants, is they want etch a sketch senators. they want the ones who will clear the screen and change their minds to do whatever big money tells them to do. that's what they want. but let me tell you.

i have been fighting for middle class families for years. and nothing, nothing will shake that commitment. [ applause ] >> welcome back to "morning joe." mark halperin and howard dean still with us. joining the table, manager of "the financial times" gillian tett. good to have you onboard. elizabeth warren will be on the show on april 20 when we are at fenway. we are working on scott brown as well. incredible race, and she is an incredible candidate. >> maybe we can get scott too. >> i love her. she called him an etch a sketch candidate. >> did she really? what a great -- howard dean, that's going to be a great race. >> great race. virginia is going to be a great race. >> virginia is going to be a great race. >> unbelievable what's going on. >> those are two of the best senate races. you kind of wish you could get those four people and spread them out to different states. >> well, i don't.

virginia is a close race not because both candidates are great candidates. in massachusetts, both candidates are reasonable people. that's not true in virginia. >> well -- all right. so, scott brown, though, right now ahead up there in massachusetts. but he is -- he has actually voted like you would expect a massachusetts republican to vote for the most part. he's got the tea party people that helped him get elected who are now angry with him. many on the left angry with him. but by and large, a lot of people in massachusetts relate to scott brown. >> he is a skilled politician, and he is very lucky that mitt romney will be at the top of the ticket. because that gives him a real chance to keep things close enough to give him a chance in a democratic state to get re-elected. hard to beat any incumbent senator. mitt romney, we have been talking about, what it means the concept of his beach house. maybe harping on it a little too

much, a little shrill i might be. but i want to tie it to something else that happened at a town hall in wisconsin on wednesday. and this was considered by mitt romney the candidate to be a humorous story on how he connects with this state. take a listen. >> i have a few connections with the state of wisconsin. one of the most humorous i think relates to my father. you may remember that my father, george romney, was president of an automobile company called american motors. as the president of the company, he decided to close the factory in michigan and move all the production to wisconsin. now later, he decided to run for governor of michigan. and so you can imagine that having closed the factory and moved all the production to wisconsin was a very sensitive issue to him. for his campaign. and i recall at one parade where he was going down the streets, he was led by a band, and they had a high school band that was leading each of the candidates.

and his band did not know how to play the michigan fight song. it only knew how to play the wisconsin fight song. so every time they would start playing "on wisconsin, on wisconsin," my dad's political people would jump up and down and try to get them to stop because they didn't want people in michigan to be reminded that my dad had moved production to wisconsin. >> ok. so i'm going to make a suggestion. i'm not an analyst. i'm not an expert. i really have no place here. but, you know, making suggestions. but how about a listening tour? like hillary clinton had? just go around the country and listen. don't talk. listen. >> the problem is, at some point, i think we have all said here, they are not gaffs. at some point, it's very revealing that this man who's talking has a real blind spot. and gillian just doesn't understand the plight of millions of americans who are struggling. >> what i do understand is anytime someone stands up and

tells you, i am going to tell you something humorous, everyone stops laughing. or rather they start laughing at that candidate, because that just shows once again why he does not connect with people. when was the last time you laughed at a joke that someone told you was going to be humorous? >> and then about shutting down factories. there is a real problem there. also, though, of course, big in the news, the health care debate. the supreme court yesterday in day three, mika, it looks like we may be seeing the outlines of a decision that may come down as a split decision where they overturn the individual mandate. but keep the rest of the bill intact. >> we have tom coburn standing by. we can talk about that. >> oh, good. >> yesterday's argument focused largely on whether the rest of the law could actually survive if the government requirement that americans buy medical insurance is ruled unconstitutional. and we'll just maybe play one sound bite to show what

happened, because judge antonin scalia suggested without the mandate, there's really nothing left to stand on. >> once you cut the guts out of it, who knows which ones were really desired by congress on their own and which weren't? my approach would be if you take the heart out of the statute out, the statute is gone. what happened to the eighth amendment? you really want us to go through these 2,700 pages, and do you really expect the court to do that? or do you expect us to give this function to our law clerks? is this not totally unrealistic that we're going to go through this enormous bill, item by item, and decide each one? >> with us from capitol hill now, our friend, republican senator from oklahoma, senator tom coburn. also a doctor, along with dr. dean. dr. dean was saying earlier, tom, it was unfortunate that the white house was pushed into -- pushed into an individual mandate, and "the new york

times" story talks about the m.i.t. professor who helped push them into doing that. do you think you can have a health care bill, tom, this health care bill, if the supreme court pulls out the heart of it, the individual mandate? >> i'm sure you could. the problem is, you're going to have uncontrolled costs. which you were going to have anyway. it's just going to be worse because the mandate helped lower some of the costs by putting that onto younger people. but i'm sure that you could have that. look, this thing is so complicated, i would tell you my hope not from the side of what i think about the health care law or not, that if you were to take that out of it, you would be better to get rid of the whole thing and start over. we still have problems to solve in health care. and the attempt with the affordable care act actually in my opinion didn't do it, and i think we have some hard work we need to do to solve it. >> tom, what about the idea of

the guaranteed issue and the community rating? that guaranteed issue is awfully important for an awful lot of people who have pre-existing conditions. >> sure. >> that goes too according to your view. >> well, it goes too. but the thing is, you won't have any insurance companies writing it if you don't have the other side of it where they can afford to spread that risk. you know, that's the whole thing. and we were already seeing individual -- as a matter of fact, jonathan gruber from m.i.t. just reversed his position from 2009 in terms of the individual market and said it's going to rise anywhere from 19% to 31% with the individual mandate. so he got it wrong in 2009. so, look, we have a mess on our hands. it was way too big of a bite. too many people were putting things in to advantage themselves and their favorite thing. i believe we ought to have some commitment to fixing health care in this country, and doing it in a way that was not polarizing. this one was. and i think we can actually make some -- make some great headway. one way to do that would be a

refundable credit for everybody so everybody has access, and you do it in a way where you don't have a stamp on someone's forehead, in fact, we're helping them. >> of course, there's no guarantee of universal access and a refundable credit either. but let me ask you about my experience. >> well, it's a whole lot better than what we have right now. >> well, we could debate about that. but as you may know, in my state, 20 years ago we put in not only guaranteed issue, but community rating. and you can't charge unlike the senate, you can't charge more than 20% over the lowest policy. that's been in place for 20 years in vermont. we do not have an individual mandate, and it works fine. so my view on this is the individual mandate is much overhyped it. really doesn't have a lot to do with how well the bill works. and i can prove that, because we have had a 20-year experience in vermont with this. >> tom? >> yeah. there's not a response. you know, if vermont can do it. and that's -- he just proves the point.

the federal government doesn't have any business taking over health care the way that we have. vermont is doing it. why can't other states? we can create opportunities for that. we still have the major problem with health care. and the major problem with health care is one out of every $3 we spend doesn't help anybody or keep anybody from getting sick, and this bill doesn't change it, except increase the amount of money we're going to spend in total hoelth care. >> gillian, help me out here. what is it about the united states, as somebody that now works here and lives here but is from another country originally? you may have a better view of what exactly ails our health care system. we spend more money than any country on the planet per person on health care. and yet as tom coburn just said, one in three of those dollars are wasted on things that have nothing to do on making americans healthier. what's wrong with the system? >> well, i think mark put it pretty well earlier, which is that america is the only

industrialized country which doesn't have some kind of universal system. and the key point to grasp is that essentially in other countries in europe it's embedded, and people don't actually notice they are paying -- the all kind of rolled up together with the tax system. and it's very subtle. if it's just taken out of your paycheck as part of the taxes, you don't think about it. the fact that america essentially has a system which forces people to think about health care so explicitly makes it much more controversial. but of course you always have the problem that you have a lot of people, a lot of commercial players, inside the american health care system right now who have a huge vested interest in bumping up fees and creating lots of middlemen. and that is an enormous iron bethe american economy right now, in that two huge sectors are finance and health. americans pride themselves on being very efficient and cutting out the middleman. just think about walmart. and yet both in the financial sector and the health care system, you have created systems

where essentially you have endless middlemen skimming off fees, and that bumps up costs. >> tom, it's interesting that you talk about one out of three dollars not going to making americans healthy. you look at two systems in our country that just don't work. the health care system and our k through 12 educational system. there we spend more money per student than any country in the world as well. but in both cases, there are no market forces, no direct market forces that actually reward success or punish failure the way we have in the rest of our economy. how do we get that in health care? >> well, there's a lot of ways to get it in health care. and the first -- one of the first ways to do it, i would say, is to create -- my example is the amish. i cared for over 500 amish families. they didn't have health insurance. they routinely bought their health insurance cheaper.

their coverage. because they didn't assume somebody else was paying their bill. so one of the things to do, and one of the things richard burr and i did, one of the things joe lieberman and i did, is when you have a policy that makes you a first dollar coverage, where you no longer become a discerning consumer about what you spend, you become a better consumer when you know you're going to have to make a decision with some connection to pocket. and we know that in medicare because we know the people that have supplemental policies consume 23% more medicare with exactly the same outcomes. so market forces will work. they're not going to be perfect, joe. but they'll work and they'll help us allocate the resource. these are the only two areas -- the only area that grew faster than the cost of health care in this country is the cost of education. and both of those have the same thing. but transparency in the market. we don't have that. i guarantee you if you give a medicaid patient in oklahoma the ability to have a blue cross

policy instead of a medicaid stamp, they're going to get better health care, one. they are actually going to get better access as well. and it's going to cost less. instead of going through the government program. that's why i want to see something like a refundable tax credit for purchasing health care to put everybody on the same playing field. because today, we have medicaid, which we're telling -- and we now have more people on medicaid than we do on medicare. and we're telling people they have access but they really don't because 40% of the primary care doctors won't see them and 45% of the specialists won't see them. they really don't have access to the same type of care. and give them the ability to actually have care. and if you're trying to find a new medicare doctor, soon to become, joe, i know it's not long until you're medicare. >> that really hurts, tom. seriously. it's just unnecessary. >> the reason i am reminded of that is because next year i'm medicare eligible. so i want to be in your younger

age unit. >> i'm not far behind you. >> but the fact is, go around and try to find somebody that wants to take a new medicare patient that's a quality physician. it's rare. >> it's getting tougher. gillian? >> about you in many ways the problem is you have the worst of both worlds. you neither have a proper free market system nor a government controlled system. there's kind of nobody in charge. and you shouldn't look aside of the fact that as the arguments go on, this is another major source of uncertainty for the american economy. because on top of all the fiscal uncertainty, the questions about gas prices, you've got this huge chunk of the economy that health care represents, which is once again being tossed into considerable debate and uncertainty about what's going to happen to it. >> of course, medicare and medicaid are the two biggest drivers of the debt over the next 20 years. >> senator coburn, no matter what the supreme court decides, health care will be a big issue in the election. senator santorum argues that governor romney is uniquely unqualified to make the case against the president because of what he did in massachusetts. what do you think of that

argument by senator santorum? >> well, does that make him less capable than somebody who didn't try to do something in their own state? yeah. but i don't think it's a big deal. if in fact it's thrown out, you're going to see the economy bump up. just simply because all the people who are not hiring with the anticipation of what it's going to cost and the mandates associated with it, i think you're going to see a big bump in the economy if it gets thrown out. >> all right. >> senator tom coburn, thank you so much. >> good to see you guys. joe, i'll be there for your 65th birthday. >> i can't wait, tom. >> that's so nice. he'll be in a lazy boy. >> when you decide to retire from the senate, i'm going to come out to oklahoma and cut the ribbon on your mansion where you have a garage with a car elevator. >> yes. >> is that a good idea politically in an election year or not, tom? i don't know. i've been out of the business a while. >> just come out and ride on some of my john deeres. >> ok. that's the answer right there. >> thank you so much, tom.

>> tom gets it. tom gets it. still ahead, rick single joins us to reveal the latest issue of "time" magazine. up next, blowout. senator byron dorgan's new novel puts america's energy crisis in a totally new light. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. dor

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i transmit this information. that is a sentence that should only be spoken into a shoe phone. i wonder if russia has been our enemy for so many years because everything they say just sounds evil? maybe it's just all been a misunderstanding of tone and syntax. we would go, hey, man, is dinner

ready? and in russian, they would be like, has the bosht been prepared? everything they sound sounds like a veiled threat. have a nice day. it is my wish that you enjoy your waking hour. i can't believe it's not butter. the authorities insist it is not butter, but -- >> that's so true. sounds like a veiled threat. here with us now as we take a live look at the white house on a beautiful thursday morning -- >> i think it's thursday. >> former democratic senator from north dakota, senator byron dorgan, the co-author of the new novel "blowout" about america's appetite for foreign oil. >> senator, we'll talk about the book in a second. but first, let's talk about the fact that here we are, coming up to $4 a gallon gas, in some places already $5 a gallon, and every time it happens we wring our hands and say, why don't we have an energy policy? why hasn't this country ever been able to get its arms around energy and develop a national energy policy? >> well, when you start talking about trying to develop a

policy, there are people who say, picking winners and losers. you can't pick winners and losers. let the marketplace do what it does to you, not for picking winners and losers, picking winners, but unfortunately we stagger from side to side on energy. the two things that are happening that are interest to me, one, the driving up the price of gasoline, $4 and probably well above, no justification for it. that is raw speculation. and the speculators have taken money out of the consumers' pockets. and the second thing is the dependence we have on foreign oil. both of them are troublesome for this country. in serious ways. so this book is a book of fiction, but you can put a lot of things into the public consciousness through fiction, and this was a lot of fun to write. >> so if consumption is down significantly in america, why are costs going up? >> the american oil market is part of the global oil market. it's because it's great uncertainty right now about iran. because you have places like china, which is consuming more

and more. and because there's an awful lot of doubt about where the economy is going as well. and the saudi arabians have come out recently and said we want to essentially reassure everyone we have enough oil to meet production. we have got -- we can ramp up our production. no one needs to worry. but the problem is that people are very concerned about the outlook going forward. >> senator, you decided to write a work of fiction. and, you know, a lot of times you read david ignasious' book, and you realize he is writing fiction to push some truths that he knows about the cia that he can't reveal. >> right. >> what truths are you hoping to push in this book? >> well, some of what's going on in energy and research is stranger than fiction. we have people working right now to try to create liquid fuels out of thin air. we've got people working on synthetic microbes you put underground to chew through a coal seam and leave methane in its wake. let me go back to this issue of speculation. because i think it's so important. in many ways, you've got people

that will never buy oil and have never had engaged in a transaction and drive up the cost of oil because of their perception about iran or this or that. it seems to me that when we created these futures markets here in the united states, we have a provision in the law -- and it's talking about excessive speculation. there is excessive speculation driving prices. maybe we ought to ask people, if you're going to sell oil, you have to have it to sell. if you're going to buy, you have to take delivery. >> it's very hard to argue that excessive speculation in the oil market because it is so big. there are so many players. there are other markets that are controlled by fewer players. but oil involves so many different countries and different people who are placing bets. if you believe in free market prices and essentially capitalism, people ought to be free to place their bets. >> there's nothing free about this market at all. nothing free about the oil

market in this world. most of the oil is controlled by countries rather than companies. so there's nothing free here. >> it's actually a bigger problem than that. the credit default swaps, 85% of the credit default swap market is total gambling and betting. and it damn near brought down the whole country. reason that we have to support all the banks and the car companies. it's not just oil that's screwed up by speculation. the entire financial community is doing this. and they basically logged their way. >> that was my previous book titled "reckless." >> we're going to sell some books here now. >> "blowout." >> stay focused, ok? don't let the editor from the financial times district you anymore. let's sell books. why do i want to read this book? >> well, first of all, if you like thrillers, this is a thriller. it's a top secret government facility, settled deep in the badlands of north dakota. and then it goes to the oval office. it goes to venezuela. cuba. people will enjoy this book.

but it also has some things in it that will get people to think about what might or might not be in the longer term. you know, what's the impact of the highly improbable in energy. what might we not even see at this moment that will dramatically change the use and the type of energy in the years ahead. >> what kind of -- because i remember seeing a marlon brando movie back i think in the '70s called "the formula" where oil companies were trying to stop alternative energy. what -- how -- what obstacles are there for united states becoming free of foreign oil through alternative energy sources? >> well, there are some obstacles that are positive, but nonetheless obstacles. for example, the natural gas marcellus finds, the dramatic increase in cheap natural gas makes it very difficult for renewable energy to break through. that's easier when you have very high prices. but still, we understand we're

too vulnerable with respect to our need for foreign oil. and i think that the research that's going on is going to produce a lot of progress. >> well, the oil lobbies, obviously, and let me just strip it down, the oil lobbies are obviously very powerful. how much influence do they put on politicians in both parties to not be too aggressive in trying to find alternative energy sources? >> well, they have that interest of course. but the three largest reserves of oil are saudi, iraq, and iran. those are the three largest reserves of oil in the world. and you've got speculators that are deep into leveraged credit default swaps and others in these markets. and so you've got a lot of people -- if we were right on the edge of finding a new inexhaustible source of energy, it could cost very little. it could happen. who would try to stop it and how would they do it? >> and that's what this book is about. >> very good. i like it. gillian, what's different now though that's leading to the rise? you set the scene saying there is speculation and concern about

iran and concern. we've been in should situation for several years now. what's causing this change? >> i think the level of concern about the middle east is probably higher in terms of the potential risks of what could go wrong going forward than it's been for a while. but the other big issue is you have countries like country right now, where you have millions of people that want to drive cars for the first time. how can you possibly deny them that goal, that aspiration? and they need oil too. so in some ways, it's good. the global economy is growing. and there are millions and millions of people coming out of poverty. and essentially wanting to live like americans. >> are the chinese ahead of us, senator? because we hear that the chinese are investing in alternative energy sources are they moving ahead of the united states right now? >> i just came back from china. they are investing in everything. but look at china and india and think through 300 to 400 million new vehicles, new cars, looking for a gas station once a week, driving around this planet. what does that say about what we

need to do with respect to energy? we are going to move towards electric drive vehicles in this country and some natural gas, but particularly electric drive vehicles, and the sooner the better. but once you talk about that, somebody says, now you're picking winners and losers and that's against the market forces. again, i'm just for picking winners. >> it's very exciting. hundreds of millions of people driving cars for the first time is not merely a great thing in terms of our shared humanity, but they could be buying american product. >> it's exciting they are buying gm cars, which the chinese are doing now. if they continue doing that, fine. but if they start building their own cars this is a grave, grave threat to the world's environment. i am predicting winners as long as they are in america. detroit, baby. >> free market. the book is "blowout." do you have more to say? >> what's it like being out of the senate? are you relieved? >> i really am. >> what do you miss the most? >> going to a vote and visiting with all my friends during the vote.

but 30 years. >> what don't you miss the most? >> weekend travel. i don't miss weekend travel. weekend after weekend after weekend. but i have a great respect for the congress. and i loved serving in the house and senate. but i'm doing lots of fun, interesting things. i couldn't be more excited. >> for me, and i was there for a short time compared to you, but the day after i got out of congress the best part was waking up and going out, picking up the paper, walking back in, pouring the cereal, and going straight to the sports section. because they weren't writing about me! >> that's right. and a little old lady grabbed me as i was going through the airport in north dakota after i retired, and she gently said, i am so sorry that you expired. and i said, no, i'm not expired. >> not yet. >> well, you've got a beautiful state. we love north dakota. >> beautiful. absolutely. >> "blowout" is the book. byron dorgan, thank you so much. >> thank you. still ahead, the war against

youth. a new "esquire" article argues that the government is taking care of older americans but overlooking the next generation. >> well, we have only been doing that since 1933. >> we're going to talk to the author coming up on "morning joe." all right, let's decide what to do about medicare and social security... security. that's what matters to me... me? i've been paying in all these years...

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we have an update now on the trayvon martin shooting case. a new video obtained by abc news shows the gunman, george zimmerman, arriving at the police department without any obvious cuts or bruises on his face. in the one-minute security video, zimmerman is removed from the police cruiser and escorted into the station. although the footage is recorded from overhead, so it's a bit hard to see, there are no apparent signs that zimmerman had a broken nose as suggested by his attorney. police say they did not arrest zimmerman that night because he appeared wet and covered in grass, bleeding from wounds to his head. >> we don't see any wounds there. well, you know, i understand why attorneys do what attorneys do. defense attorneys. in criminal cases. >> i don't see anything there. >> it has been, i believe, very regrettable, shameful in some

cases, for some who have decided they are going to step out and try to blame this tragedy on a young african-american man who weighed 100 pounds less -- weighing 100 pounds less than the man who was chasing him through the streets with a .9 millimeter gun while trayvon martin was carrying iced tea and skittles. i would suggest to those who would continue to adopt this twisted line for whatever reason, you will look foolish in the end. or worse. do not defend, you know -- you know, well, you defend who you want to defend. but if you're attacking a young man who was minding his own business, carrying skittles and iced tea through a neighborhood, trying to get home, and yet he was chased through a neighborhood when the authorities were telling zimmerman to get out of the way,

a man with a .9 millimeter gun, it is your -- your defense of the guy with the .9 microclimate g millimeter gun and the attempts to turn the clear victim in this case into the aggressor is nothing short of shameful. you look stupid or worse. >> zimmerman claims he shot the 17-year-old in self defense. after trayvon martin punched him and repeatedly slammed his head into the sidewalk. i don't see anything on that video. >> let me ask you a question as a florida native. what does this do to the florida tourist industry if the tourists figure you can go down there and go guy can pull out a gun and shoot you and not even go to jail? >> actually, the law does not apply in this case, and i think it's important to note that from the very beginning, national review i think has been out front being very commendable saying do not try to defend this

crackpot that called the police 50 times, chasing people through neighborhoods, with .9 millimeter guns. even peden, who drafted the law, said this law does not apply to this case. >> in this town, it did. >> this is a town that has a history of some -- >> is that right? >> of very regrettable incidents. you know, five years ago, you had an african-american man who was shot in the back by two people who claimed that they were doing it in self defense, that he was trying to run them over with his car. i think it has nothing to do with this law. it has everything to do with this town. and a police chief. and a state attorney. and an entire system that is broken down. and, boy, let me tell you what, i will say it again for those that didn't hear it before, we all know around this table, we all know if you're within the

sound of my voice, you know this as well. if an african-american male weighing 100 pounds more than a white teenager, if he chased a white teenager through a neighborhood who was carrying candy and iced tea, and then shot him point blank range in the chest, that african-american male would be on his way to death row. of course, he wouldn't be convicted yet. but he would basically have two choices in front of him. and anybody that works in the system not only in florida but across this country knows this. he would either be pleading guilty and getting life in prison or he would be headed to the electric chair. >> zimmerman, who is making these claims that his head was slammed into the sidewalk -- >> the abc video shows that's not the case. >> he didn't check into the emergency room so there's no medical report that might show there's some sort of injury that we don't see in that video. the lead investigator reportedly -- >> wait. can i ask you a question?

why aren't we seeing this from the police, the same police department that held trayvon martin for three days after he was killed, not notifying his parents? >> yeah. >> why isn't the police department acting more aggressively? >> something stopped up the system here. because the lead investigator reportedly recommended that zimmerman being charged with manslaughter. and the attorney's office said there wasn't enough evidence, and something put a stop on charges being -- >> where is this town, anyway? just remind me not to go anywheres near it. >> it's north of orlando. and i -- it's just despicable. and it's also despicable people that are trying to turn the attention to people other than zimmerman, the man with the .9 millimeter gun. >> all right. gillian tett, thank you for being on the show today. >> who chased a young man weighing less than 100 pounds than him through a residential neighborhood, where he was minding his own business, carrying candy and iced tea and

shot him in the chest and killed him, when the authorities told him, stay away. we've got this. do not chase him. >> they have also brought up school reports and saying that he was having problems and being aggressive. and, again, if you are, and you're 17, if you're anyone, you victimize someone. it doesn't make any sense. in any way. >> this is the equivalent, mika, just as immoral, as somebody trying to say that a rape victim who was brutally raped was a slut and had it coming to her. >> right, right. >> it's the same exact thing. these people that are trying to turn trayvon martin into a thug should be ashamed of themselves. but since they are doing it, they obviously have no shame. they are just disgusting human beings. >> the argument doesn't make sense anyway. >> disgusting. up statistic, the latest issue of "time" magazine. "morning joe" is back in a moment. today, we stand against the tyranny of meager travel cards.

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." 46 past the hour. joining us now, "time" magazine managing editor who is here to reveal the latest issue of "time." >> what is it? >> question mark. really. you would think every week. >> good lord. >> "the truth about oil." >> i know you were talking about it already this morn. why is the gas price so high, when in fact we are importing less oil than at almost any time in our history. we are conserving oil better than any time in our history. yet prices continue to rise. and it has to do with the global market that we don't control. the consumption of oil in china and india. and there are more domestic sources of oil in almost any time in our history. more pumps than almost any time in our history. >> help me out here, rick.

the law of -- if americans are consuming less than before and we are creating a larger supply than we have before, why are the prices still going up at the pump? >> well, a, i'm no economist either. but the law of supply and demand hardly seems to bear on the oil market. but the biggest thing that bears on it is the demand in china and india. so even as we are producing more oil, even as we are consuming less oil, the world is consuming more oil so the price goes up. and then you have -- but you now have new sources of oil. canada has now the second largest supply of oil in the world after saudi arabia. we import more oil from canada than any middle eastern country. >> let me say for the record, willie geist and i have had an energy policy for the past five years. we have been advocating the invasion of canada. we will seize their oil. >> we did try that in our history, by the way.

>> we need to try it again. i think we have better weaponry. talk about, though, canada as -- because we always think about saudi arabia, iran, iraq, the middle east, but canada really does have a vast supply. >> vast source of oil. it's not so easy to get. it's the oilsands. so it's -- it takes more energy to get it. it's dirtier. it's more dangerous. but it has a vast supply. and of course the pipeline issue is something that bears on that. and i think eventually we will have a pipeline to that oil so we can just suck it out into america. >> well, we would have the canadians suck it out, and since we invaded them, we would just take it. >> there is a push right now for renewable energy, and yet we have all of this oil underground. how is that playing out? obviously politics are involved in that. >> the good news, we are closer to having energy security and energy independence than any time in our history. again, you know, more than 60% of the oil that we produce comes from ourselves.

a huge percentage of it comes from canada. we are less liable and reliant on the middle east than we ever were before. and we will increasingly become less so. that is all a good thing. but it's not going to necessarily reduce the price at the pump. but i have to say, if you ask me, you know, as an american, i'd rather have energy security rather than low price. that's more important. we have talked about trying not to be so reliant on middle east oil. we are less reliant on it. let's talk about a couple of other things that are in the magazine this week. let's start with rich lowery. we were just talking about "national review" and some of the good things they have been saying about the trayvon martin case. rich lowry writes about why barack obama deserves to lose. >> rich is a regular contributor to us now, and he writes about the fact that even while mitt romney is not the world's strongest candidate, neither is president obama. and he says president obama is vulnerable. he just ticks off the list of what he considers the is

not the strongest candidate, neither is president obama. he says president obama is vulnerable. he ticks off the list. he says obama is not going to be as strong as we think. >> you have a ten-question interview with angelina jolie. >> uh-huh. >> and you ask about that leg thing. >> what leg thing? >> it was at -- >> oh, my lord. >> oscars. she poses like that, goes on stage and poses like that. >> what is up that. >> i don't know if you've ever seen mark halp echl rin -- >> she said the interview dress was less attention grabbing. >> she's a movie star. >> i cannot speak to that. >> she looks good in it. >> let's move along and talk about joe klein who says we have a fetish with the second amendment but democrats have just given up fighting this.

>> well, he says, intelligent gun reform law, he uses the stand your ground act in florida as an example where florida has been a lavatory for gun laws. he says the democrats are just abbogated any responsibility for trying to control that. >> talk about the story about how some schools could be the saviour for the middle class, talking about corporate corporations getting involved in schools. >> i think in this case it's about how ibm and other companies are basically saying, you know what, we need a supply of intelligent workers who understand the modern world and economy and they are basically creating schools in their neighborhoods to help create future employees. >> why wouldn't they? it just makes so much sense. a private-public partnership where you have corporations in a community stepping in and

adopting a school. >> you're seeing a lot more of that. >> not just to be nice but because it's good for the community and the corporation. >> you're seeing more and more of that. i think people look at the state of things and the gridlock that exists and saying enough. >> and there are different cities. new york is a leader in that. philadelphia was starting to do that. i think it makes complete sense. >> a kid by the name of mark halperin got in. >> good kid. >> mark halperin makes the point that newt gingrich and rick santorum, despite the calls to get out, will not get out because of their personalities. they are both so defiant, a, and they have such distaste for mitt romney that they will not get out. >> while they turn up the pressure a little bit, the more they will get their back up. gingrich and santorum's friends say you cannot push these guys out. they are going to have to get out on their own terms.

>> so they will eventually go away on their own? >> eventually. >> let's talk about the most important story -- >> here's the deal. i think you're pandering to get eaters. chocolate eaters are thinner. >> really? i read that. >> and why popcorn is a smart snack. >> and you can eat this paper, too. it's very healthy. >> chocolate is loaded with calories but the health potential may be offset by health bin fits. weight loss. >> okay. health benefits which stem from the anti-objection dabts may help the body absorb fewer calories. >> but it might be that the people who eat chocolate do

other things. >> of course, because they have no discipline. >> like hispanicer sandwiches for lunch. >> i hear snickers, there's something to making snickers. >> can't be true. new cover of "time" magazine, the truth about oil. we'll be right back. >> i'm going to have a hot chocolate right now. >> okay. good. twenty-five thousand mornings, give or take, is all we humans get. we spend them on treadmills. we spend them in traffic. and if we get lucky, really lucky, it dawns on us to go spend them in a world where a simple sunrise can still be magic. twenty-five thousand mornings. make sure some of them are pure michigan. your trip begins at michigan.org. hi, i just switched jobs, and i want

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good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. welcome back to "morning joe." back with us onset we have mark halperin and howard dean. >> to you it's dr. dean. >> today the debate over president obama's health care law moves behind closed doors. it is one of the most contentious issues in decades. yesterday focused on whether the law could survive that if it was ruled unconstitutional. conservative justice, anthony scalia, said without that mandate, there's really nothing to stand on. >> once you've cut the guts out of it, who knows who knows which of them were really desired by

congress on their own and which ones weren't. my approach would say if you take the heart out of the statute, it's gone. >> why shouldn't we say it's a choice between a wrecking operation which is what you are requesting or a salvage job what would you do. >> still, the justices seem to agree that at least two provisions would have to be thrown out. one bans insurance companies from refusing to cover people with pre-existing conditions and the others limits the rates companies can charge. if the entire plant is struck down, till age 26, could be in jeopardy. and certain preventive services, including free mammograms for women may also be overturned.

the court's decision, though, won't come until june, just before the conventions, right at the heat of the president -- >> howard, my twitter avatar is keep calm and carry on and i put that up there to remind myself that every political battle is not the last political battle. because we've always had these fights on the last floor, this is where we stand or die. this is where we stand. and after a while you're like, there's always tomorrow. come on such a big deal. everything will sort of work its way out in the end. but this week and if it's true,

and it works fine, our insurance market is not working any better than some. here we have -- and i think one of the problems is our administration got caught up in this. they argued that the bill has to work. they are getting hoisted. >> after the president of the campaign. isn't that the madness that somebody like you, somebody like hillary was brought in in the middle of the process. to say, okay, if we don't do it with an individual mandate, what do we do. there's so many ways to do this without running afoul. >> the only individual mandate is because of the academics are the same people who wrote romney's bill. this is ridiculous. it has no effect on insurance rates. >> by the way, for those of you not watching your tv but listening, barack obama had flyers out this attacked hillary

clinton. and if you pay a penalty and you don't. that's going back to one of the things that always scares me when i hear people talking about overhauling the entire health care system. because we know we have to have health care reform and curb costs for the next generation. >> there is good stuff in the bill, joe. >> right. >> if we throw that out, the care organization, very important. so the private sector can control costs, which is not happening either in massachusetts or national. >> right. so why did the administration say, as you said, get hoisted. why did they go down this route? >> because they have romney's bill and the insurance companies saying this, too. it turns out, that is not true.

it's a great academic argument. our community rating is much better in vermont than it is nationally. you cannot be refused for insurance for any reason in the state of vermont and you can't be charged more than 20% above the lowest rate that they charge for policy. in the senate bill it's 300% which is gutting the idea. so the idea that an individual mandate is absolutely necessary in order to make this bill work is concocted by people with no real life experience. >> hold on, howard. it's concocted by people on both sides of the aisle. >> but that doesn't make it less hooey. >> i'm going to finish what i'm saying and say, it seems that's where everyone entsz r ends up at. both sides. it's not like this is some liberal argument that started with conservatives. >> exactly. >> newt gingrich supported it in 1993. >> i am not attacking the right on this. i'm saying that this is what both sides after years of battle

with the white house between the white house and congress, this is what they've ended up with every time. >> here's the thing. it's not like the debate -- it's true, the debate has been around for more than 30 years. the problem is each bill at the end of the day is whatever you have to throw in to get it past. the problem with this bill is the big democratic majority and not much republican support. so this could have been fixed. it wasn't. and it wasn't for a variety of reasons. if you look at the approach that it has taken and gave it in return for something else, the individual mandate is what insurance companies got. i think it's a terrible mistake. hopefully it will not destroy the whole bill. the bill has got very good stuff in it and a lot of americans are going to be very sorry. >> i agree. there was another gulling thing,

howard, at the end they gave -- this individual mandate is forcing americans to buy from insurance companies and the huge health insurance companies that are making all the money get exactly what they wanted in the end with this mandate. we're looking at people like john shattuck saying, if i knew we were going to force people to buy health insurance through an individual mandate, i may have supported some of the other democratic plans, the public option. >> right. >> it's -- if this is an official mandate, and mika is exactly right -- >> here's the thing about the individual mandate. the truth is it has a minimal inprovement. it does create a case where nobody can free ride and cause

people's premiums to go up. they have a strong i don't want the government to tell us what to do. but -- so the price of the individual mandate is too high politically and as i said it was our experience in vermont has proved for 20 years you do not need an individual mandate. that is a fact. >> that's a great point. because mark, americans may not understand, none of us completely understand. scalia said he did not understand this 2,000-plus page bill but i do understand when the federal government is compelling to buy something that they don't want to buy. stripped down to its barest essentials, they don't want to hear legal arguments. i don't want the federal government telling me to buy health insurance if i don't -- now, of course, we could all make the argument that in the end everybody is paying for

everybody's health care insurance any way. when a young person walks into an emergency room, everybody is paying for it. you could make the argument that this is the most efficient way to do it. but americans would probably side with supreme court -- they do in two out of three, that the federal government doesn't have a right to force somebody to engage in congress. >> and then we're like every democracy in the world which has universal health care. something about as americans, we're not as committed to that. everybody sees we have lower costs. and it's also supposed -- it's not quite as universal but as close to universal as it's ever been. >> how many pages is this bill? >> 2700. >> so do you really think the poll about how people feel about the 2700 -- >> mika, hold on. now, i just said they can't

understand the 27,000 but they can understand the individual mandate. that portion of it, willy, just sticks in people's crawl. >> where the clinton health care bill it was -- the clinton health care bill the problem was that you were telling people that they couldn't use their doctors. people want to use their doctors. you know, at some point we're going to have to come up with a bill and dr. dean is exactly right, where you have democrats and republicans joining arms together, jumping off a political cliff and telling americans some things they just don't want to know. >> i wonder when that's going to happen, though. because we just had a 14-month battle at the beginning obama's and it was contentious and either side got what they wanted and now it could be possibly overturned. on the other side of the mandate are popular things, the pre-existing conditions, 26 and

under on the parents. so that's all thrown out. >> and the other thing is, there's no cost control nor was there in romney's. but the potential for cost control here is the aco, the vertical integration from top to bottom of health care. one health care entity can take payments by the patients. that would have worked great. this is a legislative hodge podge. it's true. but it would be a terrible sin, i think, to throw the whole bill out. it's too bad they saw it necessary to put the mandate in because it's really unpopular and it's really not necessary. >> the popularity that i want to ask you about very quickly. but the cost of the mid- -- forget whether or not it sticks in -- >> it's pretty minimal. >> exactly. that's a point to be made if you're going to assess people's opinions of it. what is the cost across the board? >> the cost of not doing it or of doing it? >> of doing it. >> i don't think there is a lot of cost except for the people

that have to buy the insurance. >> how much does it cost? >> that depends on their income. if they have an income of less than 400%, they get government help. i don't think this reaction is against the idea of having universal health insurance. it's being enforced to buy it. they could have given the canadians a card when they were born, now you have health insurance. >> while millions of americans think it's a matter of social justice, it's not a strong enough feeling that people are willing to fight for a way to get it. >> well, it's certainly not. it's certainly not at a time when we are in a great recession and i think even people in the administration will admit privately to you, high up in the administration that maybe they shouldn't have spent as much time on this health care bill as they did at the time that they did it. >> or they would say that there is no good time. now to the presidential race with positive news for president

obama. according to a new cnn research poll, the president now tops romney by 11 points and santorum. they trail the president when it comes to favorability ratings. romney is upside down by 12 points and santorum by 7. romney's unfavorable number is still higher having gone up every time cnn measured the numbers last spring. >> okay. i want you to keep this full screen up and look at the middle number. mitt romney, who has long argued that he is the most selectable and party leaders have long argued would do the best in the general election because he's not a radical reactionary now

has faf built ratings that are now net minus 12. howard dean, you don't find a presidential candidate in that position. whenever people would ask me, well, why can't sarah palin be present a year and a half ago, two year ago, look at the favorability ratings. >> the same with newt. they were so bad that that rarely turns around. >> there's another problem with these numbers. not these particular numbers. the net unfavorability ratings are very bad but a poll we showed six months ago that showed that 70% of americans believe that mitt romney only cares about rich people. whether that's true or not is not the problem. as you know, one of the most important polls in any poll and almost in any poll for a candidate is, does this candidate care about people like me? the american people think that the answer is no by 70%. coming up, the war against

youth. esquire magazine show far outearning 30 years younger. also, they were the pioneers of music in the late owe 07s. tommy ramone will be here onset. first, bill karins has the weather. >> the weather in the northwest has been not nice. the rain is from the seattle area to the olympics, same with cascades, it's cold and rainy and chill knee and some areas of oregon are going to pick up six to ten inches of rain over the next four to five days. late today, a few isolated tornadoes. watch out kansas city to omaha. we could get more impressive large hail, softball size hail

yesterday. forecast in the northeast, it looks pretty good. it should be a decent afternoon. a cool, brisk wind. the thunderstorms that formulate today from the houston area to new orleans begin to move their way to friday. for the people in the pennsylvania-new york border, looks like you may get snow. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ female announcer ] goodnight gluttony, a farewell long awaited. goodnight, stuffy. goodnight, outdated. goodnight old luxury and all of your wares. goodnight bygones everywhere. [ engine turns over ] good morning, illumination. good morning, innovation. good morning unequaled inspiration. [ male announcer ] the audi a8, chosen by car & driver as the best luxury sedan

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young people are not being

attracted to this current field of republican candidates. >> there's really a gap in terms of the republican voting and millenial voting. >> how do we excite youth again. >> well, as the kids would say, puppy cock. the republican youth are enthused. at the rallies i've seen some very young aarp members. i'm talking 51-year-olds. >> welcome back to "morning joe." he writes in part, 25 years ago young americans had a chance. in 1984, american breadwinners who were 65 and over made ten times more than those under 35. this bleeding up of the national wealth is no accounting glitch. no anomalies negative bounce

from recent unemployment and mortgage crises. rather, the unpredictable social policy that has been rigged to serve the comfort and largeesse of the old. we should have read the entire article. we here at "morning joe" are all about investigations and this month "esquire" is investigating sex. an "esquire" article on sex. did you write this? >> i didn't but brilliant writers did. >> what did they unearth in this "esquire". >> that men are a lot quirkier than you think. >> in what way? >> i was shocked at the number

of men who had an encounter with another man once in their life. >> that is shocking. and "morning joe," we go with the story is and "esquire "clearly has brought us the story. i'm distracted now but i do remember reading back when fdr pushed back through social security, older americans were the poorest among us. younger americans were the most well off, the most well taken care of that's completely reversed? >> yes, it's completely reversed. the change has been dramatic. it's actually the result of policies that you can chart, that you can see across the whole spectrum of institutional life. not just universities, law schools, unions, et cetera. >> if i can show this chart, back in 1933, average life expectancy was 62, right? >> her legs are curving -- >> they are curving up.

>> and now, of course, life expectancy is in the high 70s. you get social security at 65. so basically you paid in and then died. again, that's all reversed. we have three people working for every one person on social security. back then we had 50 people working for every one in social security. >> the big number to me is federal spending, $7 is given to people over 65 for every $1 given to people under 12. to me, it's a shocking number. >> why is that? >> because i of vested interest groups that are the power base for the political parties in power. and it's cultural. in the past they have not been willing to endanger their children's future for temporary gain and they are willing to do that. >> baby boomers have been the most sort of self-consumed

generation for 50, 60 years and continues into retirement. but howard dean -- >> old people vote. they've always voted. why don't you old folk -- why don't you vote? >> the interesting thing is, they did in 2008. it's an extraordinary thing. this is a huge problem, an enormous problem. and the thing that drives me kras gl crazy about it is it's incredibly short-sided. we keep complaining about jails, schools, so forth. you could get kids by the age of 3 much more able to compete. >> it's short sided. it's like our health care system where so much of the expense of our health care expense goes to

the last year of life. >> that's a part of life. if it's at 63 or 93. >> we're keeping people alive longer -- >> the fix for that is is payments by patient, not by how many procedures they have. you turn the whole health care system upside down. >> this is a zero sum gain. if you make older people wealthier through the redistribution of resources through the central government, you're taking that money away from somewhere and howard says it's from the younger. >> that's part of it. you ask why young people don't vote. i'm sure they don't have a lot of great options that represent their interests. the republican party is is actively trying to disenfranchise with the voting reform laws, david krom called it a sale for the baby boomers.

it's a chicken voting for colonel sanders. and then the democrats have not been great either and there's strong conservative ideas. >> there might be a cultural disconnect but young voters should be looking at people reforming social security. >> yes, absolutely. >> taking care of the national debt because it's not going to be born on the backs of citizens, it's going to be people younger than 80. >> 85% of the young people don't believe that social security will be there when they retire. so there is no one representing that interest. when perry said it's a ponzi scheme -- 85% of young people agree with that. >> mark halperin, let me show you this from "esquire". >> that's just ridiculous. >> i'm trying to sell their magazine. >> you're doing a good job. >> what is this magazine.

oh, my god. >> can i see it? >> no. >> has the president been a good president for young people? >> it's hard to say. it's hard to apportion blame but i would say that he's certainly been massively disappointing to young people. i think if you look at the status in here about feeling hopeful about obama, it just falls off the edge of the cliff. >> right. >> started at 63% and now it's in the 30s. it just continues to fall. i don't feel that -- they don't feel, any way, that he is representing their interests. >> and if governor romney is watching the program on the treadmill, what would you do? >> i think i would make social security more of an issue and i think there are larger issues in the country that affect young people dramatically. for instance, health care. that is a youth issue in many ways. he has to sort of make up his

mind on that. you know, what else? i think -- obviously if the republican party is going to run against contraception -- >> right. >> -- there's not going to be anyone young. if they run on these very traditional social -- you know, homophobic policies and so on, that just does not jive at all with the values of the younger generation. >> that's the problem. >> and here's some charts and graphs. >> stop it, joe. >> this is a big improvement. >> can i just say there are some things in here that aren't accurate? >> stop it. this is not allowed. no, you may not. >> it's worth reading. >> you already are in trouble. >> of course, we're talking about -- well, you know, demographics and demographics is fascinating. you can read all about it in "esquire." they have lots of charts and

graphs and some articles that just are not true. >> you can buy "esquire" for the charts. >> we're talking about the demise -- >> that's just not true. >> i kind of see your point. >> that is not true at all. >> he makes the case, though. >> i've read that. i've done some speed reading. not so. we're talking, of course, again about senior citizens and -- versus -- it's a battle we'll be fighting for quite some time. >> i think it's a huge issue. >> thank you so much. >> thanks a lot. >> in the new issue, it's the war against youths. coming up, weekly gdp numbers and jobless numbers as well. along with pictures from modern family. plus, from the punk band the ramone. [ female announcer ] who'd have thought

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nice look at new york city on this thursday morning. time now for a check on business before the bell with brian shactman live at cnbc headquarters. brian, what do you have? >> good morning. we have some numbers here for you. final revisions at gdp at 3%. the take away is good growth but not a lot for people to get excited about. people want to see 4.5, 5% growth and we're not seeing that. the other one is jobless claims

and if you take the number that they had last week, it was revised and it looks like it's down but the bottom line is continuing claims were up. it feels like an uptick in jobless claims. one thing we're talking a lot about and you discussed it a little bit, nat gas prices are as low as they have been since the 1990s. whether it's warm weather, what have you, will it start to become more of an appealing option for major items like cars? maybe there's a tech tonic shift going on. i don't know. you finally got that new iphone, right in. >> i did. >> well, that's good because you helped fund tim cook's stock selling. the top executives have sold more than $3 million in stock.

tim cook sold about $140 million. >> wow. that's amazing. hey, when is the iphone 5 coming out? >> soon. >> when is the iphone 5 coming out? >> i think it's later in the spring, i believe. >> what are they going to have on there? >> root beer. >> is it going to be made of something other than two pieces of glass? >> no, we like glass. >> hey, brian, thank you for being with us. we're going to go ahead and leave this segment before mika complains about her ichiphone. so you think later in the year, the iphone 5? >> yes. >> what's it going to do? do you know? you're the apple freak. >> it's going to have root beer

dispensary. >> does your ipad get hot? >> no. it's a cool compress. >> is it really good? >> it is really good. we'll be right back with tommy ramone [ male announcer ] if you believe the mayan calendar, on december 21st, polar shifts will reverse the earth's gravitational pull and hurtle us all into space, which would render retirement planning unnecessary. but say the sun rises on december 22nd and you still need to retire, td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life. we'll even throw in up to $600 when you open a new account or roll over an old 401(k).

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welcome back at 42 past the

hour. that was the legendary punk rock band in new york city. >> cultural disconnect. >> a wildly popular song. the band's guitarist passed away but his legacy lives on in his music. and now here is his wife, linda ramone and the only living member, tommy ramone is here to talk about the book, commando. >> first of all, a remarkable gift to every garage band. play it and get everybody jumping up no matter how bad you were. >> that's what made him one of the most influential guitar players of all time. >> when you go back and listen

to these songs that changed music and as the famous saying goes, yeah, it's only three cords but it's the right chords. >> seriously. all great rock songs are straightforward. >> of course. >> we tried to leave in the good stuff and all the extraneous stuff. so it was just intense rock and roll, the heart of rock and roll. >> and of course the influence of the band cannot be overstated. the sex pistols changed rock, they really did. but the ramones started in 1974. >> yeah. >> we're ahead of the great revolutionaries. >> yes, the ramones started punk rock. it started in america and it was just different, right? playing cbgbs and all of that stuff, it just exploded and became, you know, a phenomenon.

>> talk about those days. first of all, you were the one pushing to get this band started, right? >> originally i was the manager. it was a trio and eventually i became the drummer because we couldn't find a drummer to play that fast or that style. so i quickly learned drums and i became the drummer and producer and that -- you know, it was sort of -- i just new these guys were intense, colorful, interesting people that would make a great band and they turned out to be much better than i expected because they came in with these unique original songs, songs that i had never heard before. just unique, original songs. >> so let me ask you, by the time johnny died, did he realize what he had done? there are all of these stories of bill hailey, thinking that he

was bitter, people didn't realize what he had done. >> no, johnny realized. >> did johnny realized he had changed music? >> he's like, the first time anyone called him a legend, he said, legend? i'm still alive. okay. a legend. so then he accepted it because what happened when the ramons started opening up for all of these bands, all of these bands would say how great he was and how great the ramones were and he's like, wow, these are all our fans. >> one of the biggest acts in the world comes to him and says, you're the man? >> eddie became one of our closest friends and was with me along with lisa marie presley. so, yes. he realized it at the end. >> all right. here's an excerpt from commado, the book.

and johnny says this, when we started, i believed that if you were good in this business, would you succeed. but it doesn't work that way. we wanted to save rock and roll. i thought we were going to become the biggest band in the world through the ramones. and be a better world. it would be all pumpg rock and it would be great. there was a big hype about punk rock taking off but it didn't happen. >> we didn't get air play. the ramones were just ahead of their time. >> at the same time, though. we agreed on very little but we all agree that music, that we enjoy today, that we love today, started with the ramones and the sex pistols, new york dolls, and the clash. that was the beginning. you guys were really rock revolutionaries. >> yeah, you can be ahead of

your time. people are afraid of us. they didn't want so much change so fast. it was hard to get air play. you were just ahead of their time. it took three decades for it to come to fruition in the end. >> but you guys broke in '74. i remember 1994 driving around and i heard green day with their first huge hit on the air and i said, oh, my god, i haven't heard that song on mainstream radio. so it took about 30 years -- >> when people say, what do you think about that? that was great. johnny would sit in the living room and think, this is great. everybody then started discovering who the ramones were. because of the green day and the punk bands that came out later.

the ramones were ahead of their time and that's it. the clash didn't -- moved on and started becoming and doing reggae right away. so that was the end and the sex pistols never played. they did one tour and it was over. >> it was a hell of a story. >> so they had one great album. it took off later on with green day and all of that. the good thing about those bands is they came back and gave the ramones the credit that was due. >> and mark we just talk about it before, the cbgbs, 1975, '76, '77, the ramones, sex pistols coming through, blon dee -- >> center of the universe. >> there it is. >> now a clothing store. >> is it really? >> yeah.

>> the book is "commando." linda ramone and tommy ramone. next, best of late night. i'm walt gale, i worked at the colorado springs mail processing plant for 22 years. we processed on a given day about a million pieces of mail. checks, newspapers, bills. a lot of people get their medications only through the mail. small businesses depend on this processing plant. they want to shut down 3000 post offices, cut 100,000 jobs. they're gonna be putting people out of work everywhere. the american people depend on the postal service.

that is a sentence that should only be spoken into a shoe phone. >> everything russia says just sounds evil. hey, man, is dinner ready. and russia is like, has it been prepared? everything they say just sounds like a veiled threat. have a nice day. it is my wish thaw enjoy the waking hour. i can't believe it's not butter. the authorities insist it's not butter. >> one small criticism and it's probably something only a professional like me would notice. but, conan, you look awful. you look like someone put a bright, red wig on a skeleton.

and chucked it out of a help l helicopter. >> really? >> yes. i'm being kind right now. go at the doctor's office and point at your face and say, doc, it's a page 1 rewrite. >> come on. that's just terrible. that's very hurtful. >> that comes from the heart. i actually haven announcement. i want to announce to everyone here in the americas. to our friends in spain, turkey, and the uk, including england. that as of 0900 mountain time, paramount pictures and myself have come to terms on a sequel

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i bathed it in miracles. director: [ sighs ] cut! sorry to interrupt. when's the show? well, if we don't find an audience,

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hey, welcome back to "morning joe." our own chuck todd e-mailed me and said johnny ramone had an obsession. what was that? >> he wrote a whole song about maria bartiromo and i have to say it is fantastic. he apparently was an obsessive krbz watcher. there are lyrics in there about what's on the "squawk box." it cracks me up. it's very flattering to maria but he loved his stocks. >> what did you learn today? >> the sequel. >> i learned a new definition of the word humorous i had never heard it before. i have so much to learn. >> yes, do. >> with that, if it's way too early it's